And now I shall talk about the novel plots that interest me the most.
I think uh… we’ve already beaten to death the discussion about who Shuurei should end up with, haven’t we? So let’s just shelve that discussion and talk about other things.
One of the big questions in the novel is the nature of the Hyou clan. It seems that Riou Sr. only cares about Bara-hime, and spends most of his time sleeping. Ruka seems to have several goals a) kidnap Immortals to increase the power of the clan (Eigetsu), b) possess Shuurei so that Riou will pay attention to her, c) avenge herself on Shouka, d) kill Ryuuki and make someone else the king. Riou Jr. sees his father realistically, and he obeys Ruka but isn’t loyal to her. I find Jr. quite an interesting character, because of his divided loyalties, and too-old-for-his-age attitude. I’d also love to see some past stories involving Ruka, to learn more about what makes her tick besides her obsession with Riou Sr. (over-obsessive sibling relationships: perhaps contrast to the Kou family?). I’m also wondering why Senka ordered the attack on the Hyou clan, given that the Hyou and the Shi clans are like two sides of the same coin (of course, Senka didn’t really care about killing his own family, so that didn’t stay his hand), and imperial princesses often enter the Hyou clan. Also, who is in the rest of the Hyou clan, given that there are supposed to be priestesses? Why is Ruka working with Ou Ki? Does she support his coup? The Hyou clan seems connected to all of the supernatural plot, and I personally find them more interesting than most of the Immortals, though.
Ou Ki and his coup: So far, Ou Ki has Son Ryouou working for him. Just one Secretary doesn’t really seem like enough for a coup. We don’t know if Anju and Kouki support him. It seems like Seiga is helping him by prosecuting Kouyuu, but we don’t know how much Seiga knows about this all, and whether he’s involved in the main conspiracy. You’d think that Anju, as Ou Ki’s second-in-command would be of course involved, especially given his great respect for Ou Ki, but he certainly affects a pose of not-being-involved, and actually, in the books, although he knows everything about what’s going on, he actually does very little. As for Kouki, he also seems to be neutral, in many respects. But, as part of the noble faction, he was probably helped by Ou Ki, and he is Ou Ki’s successor as chief of the Censorate. Perhaps the most puzzling question is, why has Ou Ki waited until now? In some ways, Ryuuki is stronger than he was at the beginning, now that he’s working and trying hard, and especially now that he’s got Yuushun as his prime minister.
Well, we have quite awhile to think about this. The Beans novel March announcements came out, and Saiunkoku wasn’t there. :/
tags>>saiunkoku
31 Responses for "Thoughts on Future Saiunkoku Developments"
The last point: I have asked myself this question the other way round: why is it that all these disturbances began after Yuushun has become Prime Minister, or have these things begun because Yuushun became Prime Minister? Perhaps there was no reason for Ou Ki to go into action before Ryuuki secured Yuushun to his side? As it was before, the way I look at it Ryuuki didn’t hold any real power, officials disregarding him and no one to assist him in fighting them. It seemed as if all the court and the officials did pretty much as they liked, so Ryuuki was only a puppet on the throne. But Yuushun might very well be able to assist Ryuuki in securíng his position (or take over himself??), so perhaps Ou Ki has to make his move now, before Yuushun has gathered and secured enough followers with political power to back him up to crush such a coup from the very beginning. Maybe the act of installing Yuushun as Prime Minister had the effect of the ferret in the rabbit’s hole.
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charmian reply on January 26th, 2008 12:06 pm:
It’s hard to say. I think part of it is because Yuushun has been called back, or maybe part of it is because Yuushun has been trying to, with some success, change things. But, Ou Ki really didn’t seem to be doing anything before. I think part of it can actually be explained as the author not knowing where the story was going, that Ou Ki never appeared before, nor did we have any mention of the Shi-In faction.
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I’m also interested in just how much UU is involved in this whole thing. I know he came from the Hyou clan, but I’m not sure just how much power he holds and just how strong his ties to the clan are. Does he follow Ruka or did he rebel and devote himself entirely to the royal family?
Oh, quick not-really-related note: This week’s episode had the Kouki fan in my beaming. His “oh I give up” face when Shuurei asked for his sign on the document = priceless.
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I am intrigued by the impact of the nobles who are basically lone survivors of their clan because of Senka’s orders to eliminate them. Kouki, Seiga, Anju etc. The novels and the anime seem to portray them as seemingly neutral at the moment but the influence of Oi Ki may well be established because he has practically taken care of these poor souls. He has admitted that he wants the throne for himself and it is very possible that these lone survivors would be supporting him in his cause.
The way things are working at the moment, it seems that we have a case similar to pinocchio. We have a puppet who wants to be a real little boy in the person of Ryuuki.
He seems to be more confused now than he was before, not knowing which way to go and his most trusted people being the targets of intrigue and investigation, testing their loyalties between their families and their support to the emperor.
As mentioned, the other wild card that also intrigues me most is the Hyou clan and their connections in the troubles of almost all clans that have been sensationalized in the book. Who are they and what are they?
…the 8 noble spirits. They have not fully been revealed in the story yet. What major role do they have in the story?
The key seems to be hidden in the Hyou clan and the secrets that only the black wolf holds, which would all draw us back to the grand scheme of things…
Now, the question is… Who is the grand puppeteer behind all these?
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charmian reply on January 28th, 2008 10:50 am:
Hmmm… well, I think Seiga is at least going to support Ou Ki, if he thinks Ou Ki will take a hard line with the Seven Clans. Kouki doesn’t think much of Ryuuki, so I don’t think he’ll help him, but I don’t know whether he’ll help Ou Ki. Anju is utterly a mystery.
Well, right now Ryuuki isn’t really being manipulated. No on is pulling his strings, but up till book 12 he hadn’t really been going anywhere. Ryuuki, though, I think, is actually less confused. He always knew about the situations with Shuuei and Kouyuu. It was himself that he was the most confused about.
Yeah, the Hyou clan remains mysterious. All that seems certain is that they are the other side of the imperial clan, in a way.
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kaeboo reply on February 4th, 2008 9:20 pm:
There is another one who has been pretty mysterious… yuushun. what is his background like? is he among those whose clans were eliminated by senka? he swore loyalty to the emperor, does that mean he can be a counter to ouki, or would he be joining ouki’s faction later on after he has earned the trust of the emperor?
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Anonymous reply on February 13th, 2008 9:41 pm:
about yuri-hime and reishin… is reishin aware that ryuuki is basically his nephew because he is yuri-hime’s brother’s son?
it may not matter to them imperial family thing but, i wonder if there would be revelations at all. that shuurei is his nices and ryuuki is her niece and if it would have any effect in the court at all.
would seiran’s true identity be revealed? would people ask him back to the throne?
why do ruka and riou sr hate shouka so much?
the ran triplets sent the 13th princess to marry seiran, but why him instead of the emperor? they would have been a good match, though, hehehehe better than the 13th princess-ryuuki pairing since shuuei was supposed to be seiran’s retainer, it would be a good laugh to taunt him about it, well, if the author chooses so.
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charmian reply on February 14th, 2008 3:03 am:
Reishin is completely aware of the fact that Ryuuki is Yuri-hime’s nephew, but he doesn’t seem to really relate to Ryuuki as a relative, does he. XD
I don’t think revealing that Yuri is Ryuuki’s aunt would reveal Seiran’s identity.
Shouka kidnapped Bara-hime, killed a lot of the Hyou, and probably ruined some of their plots.
They said to do either, they didn’t tell her to do one over the other.
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Guess we have to wait much longer… (Hope it’s not a writer’s block.. )
The short novel in Vol 9 - In the Lily of the Valley Season made me think of those words that Emperor Senka told Ou Ki, how the Ran and Kou didn’t do anything to save Seien in prison and the contract between Suzuran(one of Senka’s concubines, Seien’s mother) and the Hyou family.
So if the events of the past would happen again (theory..), it would seem like somebody’s life(?) would be the price to start a big “event” in Saiunkoku. If the Hyou family would contract a deal with someone yet again like what they did with Suzuran in the past, it would most likely be Ou Ki. Seeing the power of the Hyou before, Ou Ki would want to have that advantage. But with Ou Ki’s sister killed by the one of Hyou family member in the past, I’m not really sure.
Seiran(Seien) - past
Yuushun(?) or Ryuuki(?) or other chara(?) - present
Seiran and Yuushun together in the previous volume for me just made a mental picture of past and present(?) targets.
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charmian reply on January 28th, 2008 11:01 am:
Hmm… I think it’s really just that the books have seemed to be coming out quickly because the latest book was a gaiden. I just didn’t have to wait before because I started reading from the beginning and it took me a LONG time to get up to book eleven, and then just then book 12 came out.
I still don’t really understand the position of the Ran clan regarding Seien. They seem to take some interest in the case, whereas the Kou clan just acted like they were plain uninterested, so at least they were consistent there. Yet the Ran clan still seems interested in Seien, even though Seiran doesn’t seem to feel any affinity towards them. (they told Jyuusan-hime to either enter the Inner Palace or marry Seiran)
I think the Hyou clan is already acting, though? Ruka sure was acting a lot there in volume 12! She just tried to kill Ryuuki, after all. And if Jin is truly working for Ou Ki, then it’s already shown that Ou Ki is friendly with the Hyou clan. Also, I think that since Ou Ki’s sister died on a mission attacking the Hyou for the king, that Ou Ki blames Senka more. Although, this is just speculation, because I don’t really have a good grasp of Ou Ki’s motivations yet.
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kyorune reply on January 28th, 2008 9:02 pm:
It seems like it. The Hyou clan could carry it out but they do need an intelligent politician who would plan it out for them. Even Emperor Senka praised Suzuran by the way she carefully constructed the events around Seien at that time. She beat even Senka and Ou Ki. Who could match Suzuran’s maneuvers in the present timeline? Some of the characters associated w/ Ou Ki seemed to be brilliant politicians but all of them are written like any one of them could be the mastermind. Suzuran was a quiet one and no suspected her at all.
Yup, Ou Ki, such a hard chara. to see through. He’s full of contradictions. He’s not a typical antagonist who would only look out for himself. More so are the Ran. With Shuuei and Jyuusan-hime on Ryuuki’s side, it would be unlike before when the Ran abandoned Seien when he was imprisoned. Or is it just a test for Ryuuki like what they did with Seien before when Shuuei and Seien had a battle in court in the Suzuran novel to determine if Seien would get Shuuei as a retainer. Too bad Seien’s personality is warped at that time.
But hopefully the panda triplet illustration would be a signal of their return in court.. the symbolism is far too telling. ^_^
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charmian reply on January 29th, 2008 3:23 am:
If you’re referring to the salt cases and such, I think the novels do imply that Ou Ki is the mastermind, either him or Ruka.
Ou Ki’s character was intriguingly developed in book 12. It seems that he is capable of inspiring real loyalty and affection in others, and he is even respected by those in the other faction, and Shuurei even praises one of his past deeds.
Actually, from book 12 it seems like rather a confirmation that the triplets have no intention of returning to the court, or having the Ran officials return. They’ve disinherited Shuuei, so they’re not going to use the power of the clan for him any more.
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kyorune reply on January 29th, 2008 5:31 am:
I can’t help but wish that the panda illustration would be a hint or something. ^_^;; I really would like to see how brilliant the triplets, especially Setsuna are in court. (can’t help it.. I’m biased to the Ran clan.
)
Ouki and Ruka: Is that so? Then we can safely say he is the one(?) moving things in court. Unless the author surprises us by introducing another chara. involved in the coup plot in the next volume, so Ou Ki is the best bet.
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charmian reply on January 29th, 2008 5:47 am:
I do also want to see the Ran clan in action again! I want to hear more about the triplets and how they and Reishin have this mutual hate thing going. I also think I would like to see Ryuuki become a great king and gain the sworn fealty of all of the clans, but at this point that seems so far away…. I just don’t see what he could do to gain their loyalty.
I think the books do imply that Ou Ki is behind all of those plots, but it is ambiguous. Also there is no one else it could be, I think.
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I personally want to see more involvement from the other Great Clans. So far we’ve only seen the movement of the Kou, Ran, Sa, and Heki clans, the others (Koku, Haku, Kou) haven’t really done much (not counting Kijin and the Daishogun). I’d like to see a little more development on that.
I would really like it also if a future story arc took place in Kou province, since it is kinda the home base for Shuurei’s family. I want to see what it’s like (is it in the south like I think it is?), and I want to see some other family members/retainers. Especially Kurou’s kids, considering their father is the most normal out of the brothers.
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charmian reply on January 30th, 2008 10:49 am:
Agreed, it would be interesting to see that. Although we have seen the individuals, the clans themselves haven’t really been active.
Yes, that would be interesting. I don’t know where Kou province is… it’s not really explained. I also would like to see Kurou’s kids! We don’t even know how old they are. I wonder how Shuurei would react to meeting them.
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L-chan reply on January 30th, 2008 8:15 pm:
Kurou is only in his late twenties, right? If that’s the case, then they can’t be that old. I’d say at their very oldest they’re probably 10-12. At the OLDEST.
Shuurei would probably act all onee-san to them, considering she likes Kurou, and has no reason to snub them.
Hmm, thinking about all this, we could categorize the Kou heirs in terms of age/rank as:
Koyuu (hey, he counts)
Shuurei
Hakuyuu (that’s his name, right?)
Sera
This of course not counting any other distant cousins we don’t know about.
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I was wondering about why Reishin has all of sudden literally stopped working??? Is he turning against Ryuuki? Any why do Ran Clan refuse to endorse Ryuuki?
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charmian reply on January 30th, 2008 10:50 am:
It’s not really clear. He was never really for Ryuuki in the first place, but it also would seem out of character for him to really want to depose him. Mmm, I think the answer to that is, why would the Ran clan even want to endorse Ryuuki?
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L-chan reply on January 30th, 2008 8:17 pm:
I was under the impression that he stopped working because he’s pissed off at how much Ryuuki is taking advantage of Yuushun. Maybe you could also consider it as his way of forcing Ryuuki and/or Kouyuu to act.
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There’s something behind all of this I think that is influencing these events. Btw, what role does Seiran play in the current string of things. He seems to have gone rather quiet for some time? Also, what does OuKi have to do with the grand scheme of saiunkoku. Why is he choosing now to make his move? Why didnt he bother moving earlier when Ryuuki refused to take throne (being an unwilling emeperor at first after all)?? I also read somewhere that Ryuuki has yet to win the loyalty of Haku & Koku Daishogun. That even they might turn against him. I mean the Secretary of the Military is now in league already with Ouki.
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Right now Seiran is playing secret bodyguard to Yuushun, possibly by Ryuuki’s orders. That’s why he didn’t go to Ran province with Shuurei and co., he had to stay and look after Yuushun.
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does anyone know when the next novel will come out? I can’t wait anymore…it make me crazy…
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charmian reply on February 4th, 2008 8:46 am:
You should leave this kind of question on the open threads. ^_^
It comes out 5/1
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Krebmarkt reply on February 4th, 2008 10:32 am:
Wooot
BUT it will take you 1 more month to digest the whole new book & post some nice resumes here.
Hopefully i’m very patient.
Question : Is that novel a main storyline one or a side story one ?
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charmian reply on February 4th, 2008 10:40 am:
Well, who knows what will happen? Someone might finish a summary before me.
There probably are not enough stories to make a gaiden now, so it’s got to be the main story.
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Making speculations about Saiunkoku is always fun
Keys words are Duty, Loyalty & Honor.
To the Empire
To your faction, function
To your clan, retinue, clientele
To your friends
To those you are indebted with
Wow that rather intricate stuff
Example Shuurei :
Obviously loyal to the Empire
Loyal to her boss Kouki even if it could hurt her clan.
etc….
I’m seeing something like a cascading effect of the intricate chains of loyalties, duties and honor.
No one aware to how convoluted things are.
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kaeboo reply on February 4th, 2008 9:15 pm:
hey, i like that analysis.
it is always a question of loyalty and trust.
there are people in the book where their stands have been questioned either by themselves or by others.
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Krebmarkt reply on February 5th, 2008 5:12 pm:
It’s rather fun to think about the potential domino effect that those intricate & complex relations can provoke when the author will decide to resolve them.
It might end with an overkill.
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kaeboo reply on February 5th, 2008 8:07 pm:
possibly, but i really hope not. i am hoping for a good ending, disentangling every intricate complication one by one and the climax be that Shuurei end up married to her career instead of any of those love-sick puppies that she has following her every step, unlike all other great career women in history who have great careers and lousy family life.
well, it’s either way for me, i guess… an ending that she marries her career or she gives up her career after getting the change that she wants and decide to marry one of her puppies but she can never have both at the same time.
that’s so far the main conflict that needs to be resolved. shuurei’s own loyalties.
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Maybe we’ll get lucky and they’ll animate some of the gaiden stories as OVAs.
*really really really wants Gaiden 3 OVA*
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